Did Avimi Forget His Learning?
On Menachot 7, Avimi is תָּנֵי menachot at Rav Chisda’s academy. The Talmudic Narrator interjects, and asks the sort of question I really like. However, I am not so pleased with the answer. Let us take a look:
אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה לְרַבִּי זֵירָא: וְלוֹקְמַהּ כְּגוֹן שֶׁהֶחְזִירוֹ לִכְלִי הַמּוּנָּח עַל גַּבֵּי קַרְקַע! אֶלָּא, שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ קוֹמְצִין מִכְּלִי שֶׁעַל גַּבֵּי קַרְקַע? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: קָא נָגְעַתְּ בְּבַעְיָא דְּאִיבַּעְיָא לַן, דְּרַבִּי אֲבִימִי תָּנֵי מְנָחוֹת בֵּי רַב חִסְדָּא.
§ The Gemara returns to its discussion of the opinion of ben Beteira. Rabbi Yirmeya said to Rabbi Zeira: And let one interpret ben Beteira’s ruling as speaking of a case in which the handful is not sanctified by the vessel containing the meal offering, such as where he returned it to a vessel that is resting upon the ground. Rather, the fact that this was not suggested indicates that service vessels sanctify items placed inside them even while resting on the ground. Is it correct to conclude from here that one may remove a handful of a meal offering from a service vessel that is resting upon the ground? Rabbi Zeira said to him: You have touched upon a dilemma that was already raised before us, when Rabbi Avimi was learning tractate Menaḥot in the study hall of Rav Ḥisda.
Rav Steinsaltz correctly translates תָּנֵי as “learning”, because that is how the Talmudic Narrator and thus this sugya understands it.
The study hall / academy of Rav Chisda is presumbly in Kafri, which is Rav Chisda’s home town. It is near Sura academy, where Rav Huna presided.
The Narrator immediately interjects. After all, he has global knowledge of Talmud, and knows his scholastic relationships. Therefore, he knows from Arachin that Avimi is Rav Chisda’s student!
וַאֲבִימִי בֵּי רַב חִסְדָּא תָּנֵי? וְהָאָמַר רַב חִסְדָּא: קוּלְפֵי טָאבֵי בְּלַעִי מֵאֲבִימִי עֲלַהּ דְּהָא שְׁמַעְתָּא, בָּא לְהַכְרִיז רְצוּפִין – שְׁלֹשִׁים יוֹם, שֵׁנִי וַחֲמִישִׁי וְשֵׁנִי – שִׁשִּׁים יוֹם.
The Gemara interrupts this statement with a question: And did Rabbi Avimi really learn in the study hall of Rav Ḥisda? But didn’t Rav Ḥisda say: I absorbed many blows [kulfei] from Avimi as a result of that halakha, i.e., Avimi would mock me when I questioned his statements with regard to the sale of orphans’ property by the courts, which were contradictory to the ruling of a particular baraita. Avimi explained to me that if the court comes to announce such a sale on consecutive days, then it is announced for thirty days, in accordance with that baraita. But if it will be announced only on Monday, Thursday, and Monday, then it is announced over the course of sixty days. If so, Rav Ḥisda was in fact the pupil while Rabbi Avimi was his teacher.
If you asked me, I would say that we is essentially a visiting lecturer at Rav Chisda’s academy, and that Rav Chisda invited his own teacher, who was still around, to honor them with teaching them this topic. We see sometimes that the three letters תָּנֵי can mean teach and sometimes means learn. Perhaps different patterns of nekudot lead to one or the other.
However, the Talmudic Narrator has the precedent of Rav Yosef, an Amora who forgot his teaching and had to be reminded of it by his student, Abaye. Thus, this is the situation here as well:
אֲבִימִי מַסֶּכְתָּא אִיתְעֲקַרָא (אִיתְעֲקַר) לֵיהּ, וַאֲתָא קַמֵּיהּ דְּרַב חִסְדָּא לְאִדְּכוֹרֵי גְּמָרֵיהּ. וְלִישְׁלַח לֵיהּ וְלֵיתֵי לְגַבֵּיהּ? סְבַר: הָכִי מִסְתַּיְּיעָא מִילְּתָא טְפֵי.
The Gemara answers: Avimi was in fact the teacher, but tractate Menaḥot was uprooted for him, i.e., he forgot it, and Avimi came before his student Rav Ḥisda to help him recall his learning. The Gemara asks: If Rav Ḥisda was in fact Avimi’s student, let Avimi send for him and Rav Ḥisda come to Avimi. The Gemara responds: Avimi thought that this would be more helpful in this matter, i.e., that by exerting the effort to travel to his pupil in order to learn from him, he would better retain his studies.
I don’t buy it. What is the follow-through showing Avimi as student? How does Avimi act in the ensuing sugya? Is he a student seeing to learn the laws of Menachot? Or, are people trying to learn Menachot from him? The story continues:
פְּגַע בֵּיהּ רַב נַחְמָן, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: כֵּיצַד קוֹמְצִין? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִכְּלִי זֶה. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: וְכִי קוֹמְצִין מִכְּלִי שֶׁעַל גַּבֵּי קַרְקַע? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: דְּמַגְבַּה לֵיהּ כֹּהֵן.
The Gemara returns to the statement of Rabbi Zeira: Rav Naḥman encountered Avimi upon his return from the study hall of Rav Ḥisda. Rav Naḥman said to him: How does one properly remove a handful from a meal offering? Avimi pointed to a vessel that was resting on the ground and said to him: From this vessel one may properly remove a handful. Rav Naḥman said to him: But may one remove a handful from a vessel that is resting upon the ground? Avimi said to him: When I said that such a vessel may be used, I meant that one priest would first raise it from the ground and then another priest would remove a handful from it.
Avimi certainly seems confident in his opinion. And, even though Rav Nachman is essentially of the next generation — he is quasi-second and quasi-third — I would say that he is acting as student. Sure, as a student who objects to what the teacher said, but he is still asking. Avimi is not in the role of someone learning, to try to gain knowledge. Now, we can admit that Rav Nachman is not part of Rav Chisda’s academy. So, perhaps this incident was after Rav Chisda had retaught Avimi all of Menachot. But then, why would we bother having the conversation with Avimi. Sure, we are being historically accurate, but are you really telling me that this is all truly the teachings from Rav Chisda, with whom Rav Nachman could have interacted? And yes, they were still originally Avimi’s. Even so, this would be quite strange. I would rather have Avimi as an honored guest lecturer in the academy.