Parshablog Repost: Amtelai bas Karnevo
Here’s an old parshablog post (see there for comments) referencing a figure in today’s daf, Amtelai bas Karnevo. Essentially, Amalthea’s horn. Amalthea was the goat that nursed Zeus, and the goat’s horn overturned is a symbol of plenty. Itov’s daughter, Keren Hapuch, is translated in the Septuagint as Amalthea’s horn. And Karnevo can be a corruption of keren hapuch (and perhaps connection with horn or plenty, cornucopia.) Our sugya in Bava Batra 91 says the reason for establishing this name / identity is as a response to the heretics. I am not sure how, but maybe it can be worked out, that Amtelai bas Karnevo predated such nonsense. Anyway, on to the post.
Life in Israel takes note of an interesting segulah, which I hadn't heard of before -- that of saying Amtelai bas Karnevo, who midrashically is Avraham Avinu' mother, some number of times in order to get hatzlacha for X. Seems awfully superstitious to me. But anyway, he writes:
Today I found out that it is not just frum jews who are driven by the segulah craze, doing every segulah they hear of and ascribing more importance to many segulahs than to basic mitzvahs and behaviors. Traditional Jews always were known to do segulahs too, but today i found out the secular Jews do segulahs as well.
It seems there is a "segulah" to say the name Amtelai Bas Karnevo in order to be granted success. After some discussion with a secular jew who has done this and knows other people who do it as well, it seems it is a generic segulah and can be used for hatzlacha in almost any endeavor - she used it for a university test...
See there for the particular form of the segulah. He asks what its basis is. So I did a bit of research (or rather, Google search), and I accumulated the following.
Firstly, it seems that its basis is in the Chida. Thus, in a question and answer to hidabroot:
מי היתה אמתלאי בת כרנבו?
ומהי הסגולה לומר את שמה?
...
שלום וברכה
בתלמוד (מסכת בבא בתרא דף צא):ק
"אָמַר רַב חָנָן בַּר רַבָּא אָמַר רַב, אִימֵּיהּ דְּאַבְרָהָם - אַמְתְּלַאי בַת כַּרְנְבוֹ. אִימֵּיהּ דְּהָמָן - אַמְתְְּלַאי בַת עוֹרַבְתָּא. אִימֵּיהּ דְּדָוִד - נָצְבָת בַּת עֲדָאֵל שְׁמָהּ. אִימֵּיהּ דְּשִׁמְשׁוֹן - צְלָלְפוֹנִית. לְמַאי נַפְקָא מִינָא? לִתְשׁוּבַת הַמִּינִים".
וביארו ראשונים שזוהי הוכחה נגד האפיקורסים שאינם מודים בתורה שבעל פה אלא בתורה שבכתב בלבד. ולהם אנו עונים, אילולי הקבלה שבידינו איש מפי איש מנין היינו יודעים דברים אלו שאינם מפורשים בתורה שבכתב, ומאחר שאתם מודים בזה שהוא ממה שקבלנו איש מפי איש, ולא בדינו את הדברים מליבינו, תודו גם בתורה שהוא בעל פה וכל דבר שהוא בידינו, אינו אלא קבלה איש מפי איש.
ואכן יש בהזכרת שמה של אם אברהם אבינו סגולה, כפי שהביא הגאון החיד"א זצ"ל בספרו עבודת הקודש [כף אחת - ט]:ד
"סגולה להולך לפני מלך או שר ומושל. יאמר שבעה עשר פעמים אַמַתְלָאִי בַּת כַּרְנְבוֹ, קודם שיעמוד לפניו".
בהצלחה - מנשה ישראל
In terms of people recommending doing this, see here and here and here.
Perhaps the fact that it is a bit of knowledge, according to the give and take of the gemara (Bava Basra 91a) as a response to heretics, for this is only Oral knowledge, the merit of acknowledging this helps. But why specifically going before a melech or sar? Frankly, the whole thing smells of superstition to me. Next, we have to track down this Chida (in his sefer Avodat Hakodesh, Kaf Achat, 9) and see precisely what he says.
I would add one more reason to be wary. Amitlai, or rather Amiltai, is connected with the goat which nursed Zeus, and is the sign of the horn of plenty. This might then be connected with the segulah, in which case it might have roots in avodah zarah. Nothing sure, but here is the Jewish Encyclopedia article on the connection of the name Amiltai:
In Greek mythology, the goat, whose horn overflowing with nature's riches has become the symbol of plenty (the cornucopia), and that nursed the infant god Zeus with her milk. This name occurs twice in ancient Jewish legend: (1) Job's daughter, Kerenhappuch (Job, xlii. 14), is translated in the Septuagint "Amalthea's Horn," wherein the Hebrew words —————- are reproduced.
[Josh interjecting: the verse in Septuagint reads: καὶ ἐκάλεσεν τὴν μὲν πρώτην Ἡμέραν, τὴν δὲ δευτέραν Κασίαν, τὴν δὲ τρίτην Ἀμαλθείας κέρας· ]
This daughter of Job, Amalthea's Horn, plays a prominent rôle as a type of saintly beauty in the "Testament of Job"—a Jewish apocrypha (see Kohler, "Testament of Job" in "Semitic Studies in Memory of Al. Kohut," p. 288); her "unicorn-like beauty" and her "smaragd-like radiance" are dwelt on also in B. B. 16b. (2) The name of Abraham's mother, called Edna (the Graceful One) in the Book of Jubilees (xi. 13), is said by Rab (B. B. 91a) to have been Amiltai, the daughter of Karnebo, which seems to be a corrupt reproduction of Amalthea-Keren-happuch, the daughter of Job—Job's and Abraham's histories being constantly interwoven in ancient legend. Possibly the Zeus legend prompted the name, as it is narrated that the infant Abraham was miraculously nourished by milk and honey in the cave where he was hidden.
Perhaps more as more surfaces.
Update: Here is more. I found it the Chida's sefer Avodat Hakodesh, Kaf Achat, 9. This is what he writes (starting at the bottom of the page):
