Rabbi Yoshiya of His Generation?
Finally, we move on from Sotah 18! On daf 19, there is a curious description of Rabbi Yoshiya.
גְּמָ׳ אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר לְרַבִּי יֹאשִׁיָּה דְּדָרֵיהּ: לָא תֵּיתֵב אַכַּרְעָךְ עַד דִּמְפָרְשַׁתְּ לָהּ לְהָא מִילְּתָא: מִנַּיִן לְמִנְחַת סוֹטָה שֶׁטְּעוּנָה תְּנוּפָה? מְנָא לַן?! ״וְהֵנִיף״ כְּתִיב בַּהּ! בִּבְעָלִים, מְנָלַן?
GEMARA: Rabbi Elazar said to Rabbi Yoshiya of his generation, i.e., his contemporary: You shall not sit on your feet until you explain this matter to me: From where is it derived that the meal-offering of a sota requires waving? The Gemara expresses surprise at the question: From where do we derive this? It is explicitly written with regard to the meal-offering of a sota: “And the priest shall take the meal-offering of jealousy out of the woman’s hand, and shall wave the meal-offering before the Lord, and bring it unto the altar” (Numbers 5:25). Rather, the question is as follows: From where do we derive that the waving is performed by the owner, i.e., the woman, and not only by the priest?
Who is Rabbi Eleazar, and who is the Rabbi Yoshiya of his generation?
Given the Aramaic describing the events, and the Aramaic words he said, this plain Rabbi Eleazar is not the Tanna, fifth-generation Rabbi Eleazar ben Shamua. Rather, he is the second-generation Amora, Rabbi Eleazar ben Pedat. (We might consider her second-generation, as he served first-generation Rav in Bavel in his youth, or third-generation, as he also studied under second-generation Rabbi Yochanan in Israel.)
Who is plain Rabbi Yoshiya? There are the three candidates. Rabbi Yoshiya I was a fifth-generation Tanna from Hutzal in Bavel, who made aliyah to Israel. He studied in Rabbi Yishmael’s academy. Rabbi Yoshiya II was a third-generation Amora, of Israel. Rabbi Yoshiya III was a fifth-generation Amora in Bavel.
Now, if we are looking for Rabbi Eleazar and Rabbi Yoshiya of the same generation, דְּדָרֵיהּ, we might have tagged the two Tannaim. But, as above, Tannaim are out because of Aramaic — even though admittedly Rabbi Yoshiya I originated in Bavel.
The Rabbi Yoshiya of approximately the Amora Rabbi Eleazar ben Pedat’s generation would be Rabbi Yoshiya II.
On to Rashi.
לר' יאשיה דדריה - אמורא הוא ובדורו של ר"א בן פדת ועוד היה ר' יאשיה שהיה תנא בר פלוגתא דר' יונתן בכוליה גמרא והיינו דקאמר לר' יאשיה דדריה דלא תימא לרבי יאשיה הזקן דלאו אורח ארעא למימרא ליה הכי שגדול וזקן ממנו היה:
“He explains that Rabbi Yoshiya of his generation is an Amora, who was in (the Amora) Rabbi Eleazar ben Pedat’s generation. And there was another Rabbi Yoshiya (I), who was a Tanna and frequent disputant of Rabbi Yonatan (in Rabbi Yishmael’s academy) throughout the gemara. And this is what is meant by Rabbi Yoshiya of his generation, that you shouldn’t say that (he spoke thusly) to Rabbi Yoshiya the elder, for it would not be proper (derech eretz) to say this to him, for he was greater and older than him.”
Rashi is highlighting the language of לָא תֵּיתֵב אַכַּרְעָךְ, don’t sit down on your knees until you explain this. That language is what a teacher might say to a student. Compare Eruvin 54a, where third-generation Rav Yosef says this to fourth-geneation Rava, who has come to make up to him. See also Tosafot Shantz to Sotah, who has a slightly different language for the same idea.
I am always glad to see such discussion in the Rishonim, and in this case reference in the gemara, of scholastic generations, and of multiple people with the same name such that we need to disambiguate. However, there is a slight difficulty here.
We have several generations between fifth-generation Tanna Rabbi Yoshiya and second-generation Amora, Rabbi Eleazar ben Pedat. After fifth-generation (Rabbi Yoshiya, Rabbi Meir), there was sixth-generation (Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi), the transitional Tannaitic / Amoraic generation (Rabbi Chiyya), the first-generation (Rav), and the second generation (Reish Lakish, Rabbi Eleazar ben Pedat). Was the earlier Rabbi Yoshiya really, having such longevity, around that someone would potentially commit this error?
Rav Aharon Hyman, in Toledot Tannaim vaAmoraim, points this out:
He humbly argues with Rashi. He points out that there was another plain-ish Rabbi Yoshiya, namely the second-generation Rabbi Yoshiya of Usha. He refers us to Gittin 33b, where Rabba bar bar Chana (who was a student of Rabbi Yochanan) said “we were five elders, before Rabbi Yoshiya of Usha”. So that would make Rabbi Yoshiya of Usha of essentially a prior, second generation, and a bit older than Rabbi Eleazar ben Pedat.
Now, in terms of דדריה, Rav Hyman also says that the explanation is doubtless as appear in the Aruch, entry דר, meaning that he was of his age, rather than of his generation.
So, in terms of actual identification of the Amoraim in the sugya, we end up in the same place. At issue is merely who the rejected candidates are.