Rav Huna and Rav Must Agree (article summary)

We’re already on to Bava Metzia, but there’s a bit I still need to finish for Bava Kamma…

In a recent post, I was confounded by Rav Hamnuna, where Rav Ashi assumed that Rav Hamnuna must tap into Rav’s true meaning, since he’s Rav’s student — הַשְׁתָּא וּמָה רַב הַמְנוּנָא, תַּלְמִידֵיהּ דְּרַב – וְיָדַע דְּאָמַר רַב הוֹדָה. What bothered me was that I thought it should have been a later Rav Humnuna. There, the idea is that he will be able to speak to the correct interpretation of his teacher.

There’s a related but distinct idea that a teacher and student should align, so we can use Rav Huna to understand Rav. That’s the focus of the article (Substack, Jewish Link website, flipdocs) from two weeks back. Brief summary following image.

1. Explain the context of the gemara. This involves various Pumpeditan explanations of Rav and Rabbi Yochanan’s dispute, one by Rav Pappa.

2. The Talmudic Narrator objects to Rav Pappa’s explanation, because of a ruling by Rav Huna involving a theft by Chanan the Wicked. Since Rav Huna is Rav’s student, he should align with Rav’s opinion. But it doesn’t align within Rav Pappa’s interpretation.

3. Digression. The Talmudic Narrator states facts about Chanan the Wicked, who was relatively much earlier. How is the Narrator privy to these biographical details? We see how his wickedness can be inferred from his name and the two stories in the Talmud. Similarly, we can infer his poverty from the story where he didn’t have a second coin with which to pay for his wickedness. End digression.

4. Here, this teacher-student relationship is used to restrict Rav, or at least Rav Pappa’s understanding of Rav. How does the assertion רַב הוּנָא תַּלְמִידֵיהּ דְּרַב הֲוָה work globally. Let us inspect the other sugyot it occurs: Shabbat 128a, Beitza 40a, and Sanhedrin 6b. Also perhaps Bava Kamma 80a, where the phrase isn’t used, but there’s an assumption that Rav Huna should abide by Rav’s innovative ruling.

5. Must students generally agree with the teachers? There are plenty of counterexamples. Maybe he is very much a student.

6. Finally, this is not really Rav vs. Rabbi Yochanan, as Rav cites Rabbi Chiyya and Rabbi Yochanan cites Rabbi Yannai. Maybe Rav Huna would not feel bound by this.