Was Rav Pappa Obese?(article summary)
Last Shabbos, my article was about Rav Pappa, and whether he was obese, or obese enough to shatter a bench by merely sitting on it..
Wikipedia has this claim, added by editor Ar2332 in a June 12, 2019 edit.
That editor based himself on this recent sugya, in Bava Kamma 10b, which included the following:
מַתְקֵיף לָהּ רַב פָּפָּא, וְהָא אִיכָּא הָא דְּתַנְיָא: חֲמִשָּׁה שֶׁיָּשְׁבוּ עַל סַפְסָל אֶחָד וְלֹא שְׁבָרוּהוּ, וּבָא אֶחָד וְיָשַׁב עָלָיו וּשְׁבָרוֹ – הָאַחֲרוֹן חַיָּיב. וְאָמַר רַב פָּפָּא: כְּגוֹן פָּפָּא בַּר אַבָּא.
Rav Pappa objects to the claim of the baraita that the mishna refers only to one specific case: But isn’t there also that which is taught in a baraita: With regard to a case in which five people were sitting on one bench [safsal] and it did not break, and then one additional person came and sat upon it and broke it with his added weight, the latter individual is liable for all the damage. And Rav Pappa said by way of clarification that this applies in a case where the last individual to sit down was as heavy as Pappa bar Abba. Since he could have potentially broken it even on his own, he had no right to use it. In this case, even though the weight of the first five individuals was presumably a contributing factor in causing the damage, since the damage was ultimately caused by the additional weight of the last individual, he is liable for all of the damage. Seemingly, this is an additional example of the mishna’s principle, and the baraita should have mentioned it.
However, this assumes that Pappa bar Abba is the same as Rav Pappa, and that he was speaking of himself in the third person.
Here is the article (HTML, flipdocs, paid Substack).
A quick summary of the ideas in the article follows.
The joke / true story about the big Chassidishe rebbe who sat in a wicker chair and broke it, with the tie-in to Vayeitzei.
Was Rav Pappa obese? In our sugya, is Pappa bar Abba the same as Rav Pappa?
A survey of sugyot in which (Rav) Pappa bar Abba appears seems to indicate that he was a separate person, and a contemporary.
A sugya in Bava Metzia about two obese Tannaim — a team of oxen could pass between their space when they stood belly to belly. Rabbi Yochanan notes that they were (both, in manuscripts) large, a jug the size of nine kav. The word used is איבריה, so we are not speaking about his belly. We’re speaking of his sexual organ. In context, a matron questioned how they, with their similarly obese wives, could have possibly fathered their own children.
Rav Pappa notes Rabbi Yochanan’s size, איבריה (and in another sugya, the Stamma says Rabbi Yochanan was obese. And Rav Pappa himself was like a Harpanyan basket.
Rav Steinsaltz (and Koren English following him) deviate for Rav Pappa and say that the Harpanyan basket was his belly. Thus:
א"ר יוחנן איבריה דר' ישמעאל [בר' יוסי] כחמת בת תשע קבין אמר רב פפא איבריה דרבי יוחנן כחמת בת חמשת קבין ואמרי לה בת שלשת קבין דרב פפא גופיה כי דקורי דהרפנאי
The Gemara continues discussing the bodies of these Sages: Rabbi Yoḥanan said: The organ of Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yosei, was the size of a jug of nine kav. Rav Pappa said: The organ of Rabbi Yoḥanan was the size of a jug of five kav, and some say it was the size of a jug of three kav. Rav Pappa himself had a belly like the baskets [dikurei] made in Harpanya.
But this seems like a strange straying from the simple reading. Not necessary, but איבריה is missing from printings and one manuscript, but most manuscripts even have איבריה by Rav Pappa. Thus:
It still seems fair to suggest that maybe Rav Pappa’s איבר is mentioned because he too was obese. This would be against Rav Hyman that Bava Metzia dealt in Rav Pappa bar Abba. It would be strange to use the common name for a contemporary of the famous Rav Pappa, who also discusses Rabbi Yochanan’s size. Reusing a name is easier if it is an Amora less likely to be confused with him.
Rav Pappa also had a voracious appetite. He would eat one piece of bread for each parsang traveled, and ate multiple slices for each slice his colleague Rav Huna bereih deRav Yehoshua ate. So he may well have been overweight.
Still, that doesn’t mean that he is Pappa bar Abba, or that he could shatter a bench. I’m not sure how much Rav Pappa could bench-press.