Young Rav Ashi
Gittin 29b
A few thoughts on Gittin 29b.
אָמַר רַבָּה: שָׁלִיחַ בְּאֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל, עוֹשֶׂה כַּמָּה שְׁלוּחִין. אָמַר רַב אָשֵׁי: אִם מֵת רִאשׁוֹן – בָּטְלוּ כּוּלָּן.
§ Rabba says: An agent in Eretz Yisrael can appoint several agents, i.e., he can appoint an agent, and the second agent can appoint another agent in his place. All of this can take place outside of court, because when a bill of divorce is sent within Eretz Yisrael there is no need to testify that it was written and signed in the agent’s presence. Rav Ashi says: If the first agent died, then they are all canceled, as all the agents act on the basis of the first agent. With his death, the agency is canceled.
אָמַר מָר בַּר רַב אָשֵׁי: הָא דְּאַבָּא, דְּקַטְנוּתָא הִיא! אִילּוּ מֵת בַּעַל, מִידֵּי מְשָׁשָׁא אִית בְּהוּ?! כּוּלְּהוּ מִכֹּחַ מַאן קָאָתוּ – מִכֹּחַ דְּבַעַל קָאָתוּ; אִיתֵיהּ לְבַעַל – אִיתַנְהוּ לְכוּלְּהוּ, לֵיתֵיהּ לְבַעַל – לֵיתַנְהוּ לְכוּלְּהוּ.
Mar bar Rav Ashi said: This statement of my father is from the time of his youth, and it is not correct, as, if the husband dies, even if all of the agents are alive, is there is any significance to any of them? All of them, from whose authority do they come to deliver the bill of divorce? They come from the husband’s authority. Therefore, if the husband is alive, then they are all able to act as agents; if the husband is not alive, then they are all not agents. The status of the agents is dependent on the husband, not on the first agent.
Mar bar Rav Ashi can testify that his father retracted, and also that his father said this in his youth. Presumably Mar bar Rav Ashi said this some time after Rav Ashi’s death. Rav Ashi was born in 352 CE and died in 427 CE. Mar bar Rav Ashi was appointed to lead the yeshiva in Sura / Mata Mechasya in 455 CE and presided over it for thirteen years, until his death on Yom Kippur in 467 CE. Perhaps we can use these dates somehow to calculate when each of them said their respective statements — but not really. What would be considered his youth?
This is, though, sometimes a useful thing to calculate. Based on conversations between Amoraim, especially when they respond to one another and are of different scholastic generations, we can decide if this is young or old Rav Ashi, young or old Abaye.
There is quite a leap above between third-generation Rabba and sixth-generation Rav Ashi who works on the basis of Rabba’s statement. We could narrow it by changing Rabba to Rava. Rava died in 352, just as Rav Ashi was born. And Rava’s student was Rav Pappa, whose student was Rav Ashi.
Indeed, it is only the three printing which have Rabba make the statement:
In all manuscripts, it is Rava who makes the statement:
For instance, here is the gemara column from the Arras 889 manuscript:
Another point which came up in daf yomi the other day was the identities of the people in the story involving Rav Safra.
הָהוּא גַּבְרָא דְּשַׁדַּר לַהּ גִּיטָּא לִדְבֵיתְהוּ, אֲמַר שָׁלִיחַ: לָא יָדַעְנָא לַהּ, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: זִיל יַהֲבֵיהּ לְאַבָּא בַּר מִנְיוֹמֵי, דְּאִיהוּ יָדַע לַהּ, וְלֵיזִיל וְלִיתְּבֵיהּ נִיהֲלַהּ. אֲתָא וְלָא אַשְׁכַּח לְאַבָּא בַּר מִנְיוֹמֵי. אַשְׁכְּחֵיהּ לְרַבִּי אֲבָהוּ וְרַבִּי חֲנִינָא בַּר פָּפָּא וְרַבִּי יִצְחָק נַפָּחָא, וְיָתֵיב רַב סָפְרָא גַּבַּיְיהוּ. אֲמַרוּ לֵיהּ: מְסוֹר מִילָּךְ קַמֵּי דִּידַן, דְּכִי יֵיתֵי אַבָּא בַּר מִנְיוֹמֵי נִיתְּבִינֵיהּ לֵיהּ, וְלֵיזִיל וְלִיתְּבִינֵיהּ לַהּ.
§ The Gemara relates: There was an incident involving a certain man who sent a bill of divorce to his wife with an agent. The agent said: I do not know her. The husband said to him: Go give the bill of divorce to Abba bar Minyumi, as he knows her, and he will go and give it to her. The agent came and did not find Abba bar Minyumi, and he did not know what to do. He found Rabbi Abbahu and Rabbi Ḥanina bar Pappa and Rabbi Yitzḥak Nappaḥa, and Rav Safra was sitting among them. The agent asked them what he should do. The first three Sages said to him: Transfer your words, i.e., your agency, before us, as when Abba bar Minyumi comes, we will give the bill of divorce to him, and he will go and give it to her.
אֲמַר לְהוּ רַב סָפְרָא: וְהָא שְׁלִיחַ שֶׁלֹּא נִיתַּן לְגֵירוּשִׁין הוּא! אִיכְּסוּפוּ.
Rav Safra said to them: But isn’t he an agent who is not granted the ability to effect divorce, as he was given only the authority to transfer the bill of divorce to Abba bar Minyumi? Therefore, he cannot transfer the agency to another person. These Sages were embarrassed that they ruled improperly.
אָמַר רָבָא: קַפְּחִינְהוּ רַב סָפְרָא לִתְלָתָא רַבָּנַן סְמִוכֵי. אָמַר רַב אָשֵׁי: בְּמַאי קַפְּחִינְהוּ? מִי קָאָמַר לֵיהּ ״אַבָּא בַּר מִנְיוֹמֵי וְלָא אַתְּ״?!
Rava said: Rav Safra struck [kappeḥinhu] a blow to three ordained Sages, as although he was from Babylonia and not ordained, he was correct. Rav Ashi said: With what did he strike them? He did not conclusively refute their opinion, as, did the husband say to the agent: Abba bar Minyumi should deliver the bill of divorce and not you? Rather, he appointed this agent to deliver the bill of divorce, and added that if he cannot find the wife, then he can transfer the bill of divorce to Abba bar Minyumi.
It is possibly relevant if the get was sent from Bavel, or within Israel. And ordination (as Rav Steinsaltz points out in the translation above) is also relevant. So we should know who these Sages are, so we can guess where the story occurred.
Rava and Rav Ashi are both in Bavel and stayed in Bavel, though Rav Ashi is much later (as discussed above) and is not engaged in the story.
Fourth-generation Rava is third and fourth-generation Rav Safra’s contemporary, and occasionally interacts with him.
Rabbi Abahu I is in Israel, in Caesarea, in third-generation. (There is Rav Abahu II, a seventh-generation Amora in Pumbedita, but he is too late and irrelevant.)
Rabbi Chanina bar Pappa is in Israel, third-generation in Caesarea. (He is not the famous fifth-generation Rav Pappa’s son.)
Rabbi Yitzchak Nafcha is also a third-generation Amora, though like Rav Safra, he traveled back and forth between Israel and Bavel.
It seems safe to say that this incident occurred in Israel, but that it was told over in Bavel, perhaps by Rav Safra himself.